Skip to main content

tv   All In With Chris Hayes  MSNBC  December 8, 2014 5:00pm-6:01pm PST

5:00 pm
much of the time, all the time he was reading history. history is what made jack, she said. my father had it right about kennedy. he had a touch of churchill and that made all the difference. and that's "hardball" tonight. thanks for being with us. "all in" with chris hayes, starts right now. >> tonight, on "all in." protests against police brutality continue. >> i think this would go a long way to waerds restoring public confidence which, right now, is shot. >> then, new fallout from rolling stone's report on gang rape and uva. plus, a long-awaited report on c.i.a. torture drops tomorrow. >> these are patriots. and whatever the report says, if it diminishes contributions to our country, it is way off base.
5:01 pm
>> who has the money in the cloud when it comes to king-making. earnings over the grumpy cat. we'll investigate. "all in" starts right now. >> good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes. a remarkable scene just unfolded moents moments ago here in new york. the duke and dutchess of cambridge. last words itered repeeted 11 times as he was sublted to a police stroke hold from a restraint that caused his death. multiple players on both teams donned the shirt in solidarity tonight. the latest in a series of pro-athletes to invoke those words which have become a rallying cry. including shi can duo bulls point guard, the cleveland
5:02 pm
browns johnson bottamosi. it's been five days since the staten island grand jury decided not to indict the police officer daniel anotlio. right outside the barclay center in brooklyn where the nets-cavs game is underway with the royal couple inside. today, some everyone staging a die-in and blocking traffic outside city hall. the council speaker op eer open today's hearing with remarks about eric garner. at a jaw-dropping report from the new york daily news, shares that something is broken in the way the criminal justice system handles these cases. among 179 people killed, just
5:03 pm
three have led to the officer's indictment. and only one resulted in a conviction. that officer is not sentenced any jail time. that is just what's happening here in new york including in cleveland, not far from where he plays. the follow continues from the death of tamir rice. the 12-year-old boy fatally shot on november 22nd. video seems to contradict some very key points in the account initially provided by police. today, tamir rice's mother spoke out for the first time telling nbc news she wants justice for her son. >> all the parties should be accountable for my son. death. all the parties. every single one of'm. me and my family will be satisfied with both of the officers being convicted. that would bring me justice. >> cleveland officials said the case will go before yet another grand jury. rice family filed a wrongful death suit friday against the
5:04 pm
officer who fired the shot, his parter in and the city of cleveland. this, after a justice report loo last week found evidence of systematic abuse. the attorney who's represented the family of trayvon more e martin and michael brown. she says that her 14-year-old daughter was detained and handcuffed by police on the scene. >> the little girl or little boy said, as she was coming out the rec, she was in the bathroom. your brother been shot. so she goes charging towards her brother. they actually tackled her and put her in handcuffs. that's how she ends up in handcuffs in the police car, you know, next to my son laying there. she's actually looking at her brother dying before her eyes. meanwhile, less than a mile
5:05 pm
from where that basketball game was held tonight, a funeral was held over the weekend. 28-year-old was unarmed when he was shot by a rookie officer in the stairwell of a brooklyn project. nathanial, tell me what it's like inside. >> it's a pretty surreal scene with the royals. lebron james, skiend of all coming together at once here in the stadium. >> you've got protesters outside, as well. they had sort of congregated beforehand. what was that scene like? >> well, to tell you the truth, if you're in the arena, it's pretty easily to be insulated from it, for better or for worse.
5:06 pm
the royals came in through a elevator and sort of regrouped. there were a lot of people here just watching everything lebron did from start to finish. >> was there any audible reaction when lebron came out in that shirt? >> there's electricity around him where ever he goes. a number of teammates had the shirt going. so it's just part of the general atmosphere here. >> it marks quite a departure. we saw back in the 1990s when i was a childhood nba fan.
5:07 pm
a lot of players shying away from any kind of political statements. lebron was in the locker room before the game. there was about 50 people surrounding him, just waiting to see what he does. he was asked if he was going to wear the t-shirt, he said he didn't know. turns out 25 minutes before the game, he had the shirt delivered to him and he wore it just for the warm up for a brief moment. grand jury decisions have got a lot of prosecutors asking should they investigate shootings when they frequently work with law enforcement officers and depend upon them every day to build their cases.
5:08 pm
wrote a letter to governor andr andrew qu andrew cuomo. i spoke to the attorney general and asked him if he would explain exactly what he's asking for from the governor. >> what i've done today is sent a letter to the goef nor, first of all, committing to working myself with him and the members of the ledgislature. this is the only office he can do this, take over all cases of deaths caused by police officers
5:09 pm
in the line of duty of unarmed civilians. a very narrow set of cases. i've asked for an order that would expire to rewrite the laws badly need to be where he e rewritten. >> any time a politician is saying i want you to give my aufgs more power, there's going to be 1078 skepticism about this. why is your officer the right office to do this h? >> well, the only office in the state that the governor under our state laws empowered to direct to take over a case from the district attorney is the attorney general. it's been done in the past on a variety of occasions. the famous nap commission prosecution because governor nelson drekted the attorney general to supersede the d.a. as a special prosz cue xx.
5:10 pm
it's just a common sense approach. i think the public's kftsd is shot in the ability of our local d.a.s who do a great job, by the way. and i don't think that there is the reality of biesz to the degree in which a lot of people are contending. they have to come forward as witnesses chlts the nypd is a great department. all e all of the people are asking them if there's an independent a independe independe independent ash xx with a police officer acting in the line of duty. i think this is just a step towards restoring kftsd.
5:11 pm
this is an eft to restore that. >> know what will go you know now, given the result of what came out of that staten island grand jury, should the governor have taken the step before the grand jury was empanelled in staten island? >> well, i don't want to second guess that. one of the things that needs to be addressed in new york is 2 e the completely opaque grand jury process. we have some of the toughest laws in the country. they can't know. they get access to the information, as we saw with different laws. one of the issues they have to address is this black box in the grand jury.
5:12 pm
>> well, it has to deal with the law that is in several different areas. if dan donovan had gone to a court in new york and said you know what, the appearance of impropriety here, i just want to create the right impression and keep up the confidence. just, please apoint another d.a., he would have been turned down under the current law in e of the state of new york. we have to have a safety vol e valve. under current law, the only office that the governor can direct to take this action is my office. these are not cases that anyone looks forward to having. but we are prepared to be a part of that solution. we think it will send a message to the legislature that we are all serious about this and not going to put up in action with the new york legislative aex. >> last week, rolling stone apologized to his readers for its flawed reporting. its bomb shell report of rape al gagszs in vae va. now, the ugly backlash against the accuser that has begun. that's ahead. the holiday season is here,
5:13 pm
which means it's time for the volkswagen sign-then-drive event. for practically just your signature, you could drive home for the holidays in a german-engineered volkswagen. like the sporty, advanced new jetta... and the 2015 motor trend car of the year all-new golf. if you're wishing for a new volkswagen this season... just about all you need is a finely tuned... pen. get zero due at signing, zero down, zero deposit, and zero first month's payment on select new volkswagen models.
5:14 pm
. in the midst of yet another
5:15 pm
grim news cycle, there is some good news to report. that is obamacare is working. according to a new report, a key provision of the affordable care act has resulted in ene insurer reducing their costs. more is going to customers for less money. under obamacare, premiums are growing at a slower rate, too. just one more example of how the aca is working. blaepg turn the trips you have to take, into one you'll never forget. earn points for every flight and every hotel. expedia plus rewards. i make a lot of purchases foand i get ass. lot in return with ink plus from chase. like 50,000 bonus points
5:16 pm
when i spent $5,000 in the first 3 months after i opened my account. and i earn 5 times the rewards on internet, phone services and at office supply stores. with ink plus i can choose how to redeem my points. travel, gift cards, even cash back. and my rewards points won't expire. so you can make owning a business even more rewarding. ink from chase. so you can. . new chapter opening tonight alleging a brutal gang rape at the university party last week after mounting criticism of the
5:17 pm
way rolling stone reported the piece, the magazine admitted to discrepancies in the story. now, the woman who is roommates with jackie, that's the woman at the cent r er of that story, th uva present survivor who leads the piece is speaking out. she says she does not believe her room mate's story was a hoax. over the weekend, jackie clark wrote in uva student newspaper. "i believe wholeheartedly that she went. that all notably changed by december, 2012. sometime i remember her letting it slip to me that she had a terrible experience at a party. i remember her it will e telling me that multiple men had assaulted her at this party. the article, defending jackie's story, comes after several details had been called to question. the online piece now features an extensive editor's note.
5:18 pm
when the note uzwas originally posted, we have come to the conclusion that jackie's trust was misplaced. it now reads these mistakes are on rolling stone. not on jackie. although the magazine has apologized for the story, they have yet to giver an account before they went to print. managing editor told new york times the manager plans to do further reporting on the story as it determines the truth of what happened. right now, we're picking up t i pieces. jackie feels wideals with the s predictable violations of her privacy, the entire university is dealing with fallout of the report. yesterday, three national organizations called on uva to
5:19 pm
immediately reinstate all fa fraternities and sororities on campus. the university told us greek activities would be reinstated on january 9th. meanwhile, advocates who work with jackie worry about the report's impact on all survivors. >> i don't think the rolling stone art kal did her justice in 5:00 nojsing the ways she was still confused or working through a trauma. and now i think people will take inconsistencies to mean that she's lying. which is what police departments have done for many years and which is why so many rape cases go unpros cuted. >> professor, i'll start with you. it is not zimply the case that rolling stone did not contact
5:20 pm
the men in question. it is the fact that it appears they did not have any means. that they ran a story, somehow, miraculously, got through legal which i don't know how. without getting names that they could confirm who attended the campus. i can't imagine how that gets through legal. >> it's really an astonishing malfeasance in my view of the journalistic allegation to do some fact checking. my sengs is that there was a narrative that the magazine had become e napp became enamored of. you can be sympathetic. but you have to ultimately do your homework. no news organization, and i would add no advocacy
5:21 pm
organization can afford to put toward a false narrative in a situation like this. as you suggested, what that's going to mean is that in the future, victims are going to have a much harder time being believed. we just saw this discussion with the michael brown case. the eyewitness said something that was then refuted by physical evidence to mean that eyewitness was "lying" in how they observed or remembered a very traumatic, fast-paced event. it seems deplete e completely plausible is imperfect. >> the more convinced i am that jackie is telling the truth. she has been very shabbily
5:22 pm
treated by unethical journalistic procedures at the rolling stone. the rolling stone has a lot to answer for. the reality is that they are telling the truth. the fight flight freeze response to a life threatening situation like a traumatic rape, especially a gang rape, those things actually do two things. first of all, they severely interfere with the victim's ability to respond in a rational way to the immediate event. also, bringing chemistry of the response. >> so this to me is where we get to the rock bottom of the issue.
5:23 pm
stlr things being said at the article working as a life guard. there are some sort of factual disputes. if this is the case, then what possible hope is there for justice in iert direction? you're talking about intimate closeness without witnesses. so what do you do? >> skris, i think you're exactly zeroing in on the problem. because we have this innocent until proven guilty that we apply to an accused perpetrator,
5:24 pm
we therefore apply exactly the opposite standard to a rape victim. she is presumed guilty of lying until she can prove herself innocent. that's wrong. she needs to be just as innocent until proven guilty. that's the essence of rape culture. is that in our zeal to protect an accused, we revictimize the victim. >> that's also -- that may or may not be part of the culture. how should reporters process it? >> remember, rorts eporters are bound by the rules of evidence. it isn't enough to say that this woman was traumatized, therefore, we must accept her entire story as given.
5:25 pm
it's up to the reporters to take the steps to go out and check it. one of the reporters made promppromp promises that they would not even attempt to contact the individuals that have been accused. you can't rely on a single witness or a single person's story like this. i'm not asking the voracity of a plar individual. i'm just saying that as a princip principle, you don't rely on one person. >> when you reach the story, the story says i can't contact these people and i conditioncan't e i you their names. we have to go find another source of the story. full stop. all right. back in a moment.
5:26 pm
introducing... a pm pain reliever that dares to work all the way until... the am. new aleve pm the only one to combine a safe sleep aid plus the 12 hour strength of aleve. twhat do i do?. you need to catch the 4:10 huh? the equipment tracking system will get you to the loading dock. ♪ there should be a truck leaving now. i got it. now jump off the bridge. what? in 3...2...1... are you kidding me? go. right on time. right now, over 20,000 trains are running reliably. we call that predictable. thrillingly predictable.
5:27 pm
get to the terminal across town. are all the green lights you? no. it's called grid iq. the 4:51 is leaving at 4:51. ♪ they cut the power. it'll fix itself. power's back on. quick thinking traffic lights and self correcting power grids make the world predictable. thrillingly predictable. (vo)rescued.ed. protected. given new hope. during the subaru "share the love" event,
5:28 pm
subaru owners feel it, too. because when you take home a new subaru, we donate 250 dollars to helping those in need. we'll have given 50 million dollars over seven years. love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru.
5:29 pm
the woman behind the success of lifetime star and grumpy cat is knocking down a report from the british tabloid, the british express, that she has made 64 million pounds, nearly a hundred million off of the cat. from the cat that goes by the name tartar sauce at home. we've been unable to determine grumpy cat's net wrt. worth.
5:30 pm
today's series of out rage responses well, i've got to be honest. it bemused me. say what you want about grumpy cat, stemming from a jeanetgene defect, but that cat never sold anyone a predatory mortgage and never did anything that caused taxpayers billions of dollars. if you thought people at the top of the income drirks were there and grumpy cat is where you draw the line, let me tell you, in the annals of creatures who don't deserve the money they're making, grumpy cat doesn't even make it onto my ledger. as the saying goes, don't hate the player, hate the game. please, pleas ase. [ male announcer ] the wish we wish above all...is health. so we quit selling cigarettes in our cvs pharmacies. expanded minuteclinic, for walk-in medical care.
5:31 pm
and created programs that encourage people to take their medications regularly. introducing cvs health. a new purpose. a new promise... to help all those wishes come true. cvs health. because health is everything. cvs health. dentures with toothpaste or plain water. and even though their dentures look clean, in reality they're not. if a denture were to be put under a microscope, we can see all the bacteria that still exists on the denture, and that bacteria multiplies very rapidly. that's why dentists recommend cleaning with polident everyday. polident's unique micro clean formula works in just 3 minutes, killing 99.99% of odor causing bacteria. for a cleaner, fresher, brighter denture everyday. and cialis for daily useor you. helps you be ready anytime the moment is right. cialis is also the only daily ed tablet approved to treat symptoms of bph, like needing to go frequently. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medicines,
5:32 pm
and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sex. do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain, as it may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. do not drink alcohol in excess. side effects may include headache, upset stomach, delayed backache or muscle ache. to avoid long term injury, get medical help right away for an erection lasting more than four hours. if you have any sudden decrease or loss in hearing or vision, or any allergic reactions like rash, hives, swelling of the lips, tongue or throat, or difficulty breathing or swallowing, stop taking cialis and get medical help right away. ask your doctor about cialis for daily use and a free 30-tablet trial.
5:33 pm
because i make the best chicken noodle soup. because i make the best chicken noodle soup. because i make the best chicken noodle soup. for every way you make chicken noodle soup, make it delicious with swanson®. they take us to worlds full of heroes and titans. for respawn, building the best interactive entertainment begins with the cloud. this is "titanfall," the first multi-player game built and run on microsoft azure. empowering gamers around the world to interact in ways they never thought possible. this cloud turns data into excitement. this is the microsoft cloud. can you tell us anything about the report coming out? >> no, not now.
5:34 pm
>> can you tell us about senator kerry's phone call with you on friday? >> no. >> what do you expect from the -- do you expect any pushback? >> i will make comments on the floor tomorrow at 11:00 and i'd like to reserve any comment until then. >> thank you very much, ma'am. >> i'm sorry you had to wait all day for that. >> after five years of bitter wrangling behind the scenes of jock killing and lit gags and damn near constitutional crisis, at a reported cost of $40 million, tomorrow, senate intelligence committee plans to release the most come rehencive account under the bush administration. there's been a point of tremendous tension. the c.i.a. even admitted into hacking into the senate staffers computers. at least one senator accused the agency of trying to obstruct the torture investigation.
5:35 pm
the obama add min has taken the matter very seriously. finestein told the l.a. times that the white house's involvement was not received well. the report is expected to question the efficacy of torture and revealing more details of the program. they may have misled officials at headquarters. a couple years aduo, the report uncovers startling details about the c.i.a. interrogation program that raises critical questions. there is a bipartisan push. there's a bipartisan push against the release of the report. some of it from unsurprising corners. >> we're fortunate to have men and women who work hard at the
5:36 pm
cia serving on our behalf. these are patriots. and whatever the report says, if it diminishes the contributions to our country, it is way off base. and i knew the directors, i knew the deputy directors. i knew a lot of the operators. these are good people, really good people. and we're lucky as a nation to have them. >> republican congressman mike rogers shared the house intelligence committee is warning the police is dangerous from the u.s. and allies. >> our former partners will cause violence and deaths. our foreign leaders who approach the government and say you do this, this will cause violence and deaths. our own intelligence kmun tie has assessed that this will cause violence and deaths. nbc reports that friday, secretary kerry calls to the release department today.
5:37 pm
he made it clear the choice was senator finestein. it was voted out in 2012. it's with the administration. with the administration trying to keep the report from being declassified to the extent that senator finestein wanted. >> so my understanding of the main point of contention of this has been the fight is over. whether you use essentially pseudonyms for certain people that appear in different places throughout the report so you have some sort of narrative sense. this person, this operator was doing this in afghanistan and later doing this and obviously, don't use a real name, use a fake name. and the c.i.a. is saying ha is
5:38 pm
exposed our people. >> that's one of the fights. the other is that there may be others, as well. there were several hundred redactions, apparently, that were the subject of negotiations. >> so we're now hearing this argument which really now isn't the time. look, that is basically the argument. >> i eej sorry. maybe they noticed that there was just an ole election. they may have noticed. and the chairman ship of the sbel jenls committee next year will fall probably to senator burr who is on record saying that nothing that the intelligence committee has ever done should be in public. >> they're just trying to run out the clock permanently. >> yeah. >> we are talking about the only comprehensive investigative entry into this.
5:39 pm
and the decision and the extend e tent to which the american government tortured people, fairly systematic and a fashion that i think all ind kaxs reporting would be more widespread. >> more widespread, more brutal. those are senator finestein's words. and also, the effectiveness of these techniques. it is the only opportunity for some form of accountability that we'll get so far. >> torture is illegal under u.s. law and international convention. it is a war crime. >> it is a statement of fact. however, quite recently, the state department made a statement that the obama administration interprets the laws against torture to apply to u.s. officials acting overseas when they were acting in areas
5:40 pm
that were under the jurisdiction of the united states dwovt. so that leaves the door open to torture u.s. officials acting elsewhere in places across the word. . . >> wait a minute, i don't understand that. >> it's when the united states is acting overseas. >> it is illegal overseas if it's under the control of the u.s. government. so that would include a military base. but would it include a black site operated by a third party government? is that outside the purview of the legal prohibition on torture? >> that's one of the reasons this report is so important.
5:41 pm
because president obama has said the torch is rung, we shouldn't have done it. we tortured some folks, is the word that he used. the door needs to be closed and it needs to be closed permanently. that won't happen until we doe stroi this hollywood narrative that torture was somehow heroic and patriotic. that's what this report can do. >> basically, the white house put maximum support on the c.i.a. and take it away from the white house. >> that's a shame not because it makes the c.i.a. look worse or more culpable, but because it makes the white house seem less cupble. and it e really, there's plenty of blame to share. we need a full truth. it's time. it's been more than a decade. >> what happens tomorrow if it comes out and there are massive, bloo bloody, violent protests around the world. >> isis, whatever we're calling
5:42 pm
them now, execute american hostages and said it was because of american air strikes. we don't allow isis to dick tat our foreign policy. >> i think that applies universally. thank you very much. >> thank you. >> a lot of money have already decided the free e three people who are front runners for president in 2016. but they only want one of them to actually run. more on that ahead. you don't need to think about the energy that makes our lives possible. because we do. we're exxonmobil and powering the world responsibly is our job. because boiling an egg... isn't as simple as just boiling an egg. life takes energy.
5:43 pm
energy lives here. it takes a whole lot of people to put a television show on the air. last week, we lost one of those who helped make this and so many other nbc and msnbc shows as possible. will heins, one of the unseen team responsible. will helped launch this show 18 months ago. he passed away last week after
5:44 pm
complications from a brain tumor. he will be long-remembered around here for his amaze iing selflessness. introducing... a pm pain reliever that dares to work all the way until... the am. new aleve pm the only one to combine a safe sleep aid plus the 12 hour strength of aleve.
5:45 pm
i just received a text from ddiscover hq?. yep. we check every purchase, every day and alert you if anything looks suspicious. nice. i'm looking into some suspicious activity myself. madame that is not a changing table. at discover, we treat you like you'd treat you. get the it card at discover.com my nai'm a lineman for pg&e out of the concord service center. i have lived here pretty much my whole life. i have been married for twelve years. i have 3 kids. i love living here and i love working in my hometown. at pg&e we are always working to upgrade reliability to meet the demands of the customers. i'm there to do the safest job possible - not only for them, but everybody, myself included that lives in the community. i'm very proud to do the work that i do and say that i am a lineman for pg&e because it's my hometown. it's a rewarding feeling.
5:46 pm
high-pitched ] nailed it! republican parties biggest donors and fundraisers have a serious parroblem on their hand. contenders as they see as candidates in theth shl primary. but if one viable establishment candidate is a blessing for the gop's donor class, two or more is a headache. you don't want to have to pick sides in a battle between establishment candidates, one that their candidate my wind up
5:47 pm
losing. establishment donors worry they will be split into competing camps, have to raise hundreds of millions of dollars for primaries. or, even worse, provide a path to a nonestablished candidate like rand paul or ted cruz who the big money donors think have little chance to win the president sill. >> e. here's the thing, they are rather amazingly the little guys. while they fret about frayed relation and play by the old rules, megadonors are writing rules of their own. edelson who is worth a cool $29.5 billion, a figure i can't believe i just said out loud and whose family spent $20 million back in newt gingrich's presidential campaign is reportedly looks eing into
5:48 pm
taking his political spending in-house. and then there's the coke brothers and their allies who have built up a political operation that political reports have all the hallmarks of a national political party. they've dumped tens of millions of dollars into a data company as detailed, state of the art profiles. a coke-backed business at the credibility e center uses consumer data along with information from social networks, income, tv viewing and everyone a brand of cars someone drives to develop voter profiles. this used to be the sort of constitutional capacity that could only be had from a political party. various war lords fight to impose their will.
5:49 pm
it's a huge change we're going to talk about next. blaeng blank ole o o blaeng bl wouldn't it be great if hiring plumbers, carpenters shopping online is as easy as it gets. and even piano tuners were just as simple? thanks to angie's list, now it is. we've made hiring anyone from a handyman to a dog walker as simple as a few clicks. buy their services directly at angieslist.com no more calling around. no more hassles. start shopping from a list of top-rated providers today. angie's list is revolutionizing local service again. visit angieslist.com today.
5:50 pm
i make a lot of purchases foand i get ass. lot in return with ink plus from chase. like 50,000 bonus points when i spent $5,000 in the first 3 months after i opened my account. and i earn 5 times the rewards on internet, phone services and at office supply stores. with ink plus i can choose how to redeem my points. travel, gift cards, even cash back. and my rewards points won't expire. so you can make owning a business even more rewarding. ink from chase. so you can.
5:51 pm
if yand you're talking toevere rheumyour rheumatologiste me, about a biologic... this is humira. this is humira helping to relieve my pain and protect my joints from further damage. this is humira giving me new perspective. doctors have been prescribing humira for ten years. humira works for many adults. it targets and helps to block a specific source of inflammation that contributes to ra symptoms. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened, as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. before treatment, get tested for tb. tell your doctor if you've been to areas where certain fungal infections are common, and if you've had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flu-like symptoms or sores. don't start humira if you have an infection. talk to your doctor and visit humira.com this is humira at work
5:52 pm
which means it's timeson for the volkswagen sign-then-drive event. for practically just your signature, you could drive home for the holidays in a german-engineered volkswagen. like the sporty, advanced new jetta... and the 2015 motor trend car of the year all-new golf. if you're wishing for a new volkswagen this season... just about all you need is a finely tuned... pen. get zero due at signing, zero down, zero deposit, and zero first month's payment on select new volkswagen models. . joining me now, local reporter for the new york times. nick, i was fascinated. i've been fascinated by sort of 21st century, smoke-filled room, kind of plotting. what came across to me, george
5:53 pm
w. bush, when it really became, like, a thing, that is an increasing mean of production. it's like mugs working on illuminating manuscripts. we've got this new world where it's, like, who wants to bundle a bunch of checks together. >> it is certainly a lot more to bundle. we'll always have bundles. but you can now set up shop without having to do all of that hard work of calling 50 people a week to get checks. and you can set up shop and be your own mini party if you want to if you have the money. >> think about the difference between the kind of person that's a bundler and the kind of person that can write a hundred million dollar check. the bundler is embedded in some ort of establishment. a lot of these are big, corporate lawyers, they work with a lot of different clients. he's also, like, a really
5:54 pm
idiosyncratic guy. they are self profesed in a certain way. it's a different piece. >> it's true. it's party and then outside the party or one foot inside the party. these guys have their roef renss. and if they decide that they think so and so is actually the secret best long shot for the party, they can put the money and make that happen for that person. by the way, in itself, is hilarious in which any tea party person or concerted intellectual connects es to the base thinks that they want to have nothing to do with. >> i think there sort of is a competition for all of these donors. whether you are a bundler or you are a mega-donor. nick's piece nails it.
5:55 pm
they all overlap with those same donors and megadonors. what everyone is trying to figure out is, one, who's running? and who are you going to line up with? >> but here's the other thing, right? the bigger issue here is that every sort of open primary since 1988, which wasn't a particularly contested primary, has basically gone down like this. the establishment nominee wins at the ebd. what do you think? >> perhaps. the most interesting part of this discussion right now is mitt romney. >> that's an amazing sentence. as part of the political dynamics at play, there's a lot of concern that chris christie
5:56 pm
is still damaged by the bridge episode and that jeb bush has not been on the balance since 2002 and whether he could be a candidate at these times for a republican base is an open question. that's why they're still going to romney and saying are you interested? is this something you can consider? i think romney is going to waitened see. >> nothing makes me more sympathetic as to people that are normally quite different from me. the insurgent tea party act viss. it's enraging. >> first of all, it's the guy that lost. and second of all, it's so antidynamic. >> that party has spoent years and years making money more and more and more important.
5:57 pm
>> at the opposite end of the spectrum, you'll still have some of those bundlers and a mix of all of that. >> the big question to me becomes how sophisticated the sort of big money gets. >> what we had in 2012, which was the first it ration of this, you had the foster freeze phenomenon. you had the person with the deep pockets, writing checks, with not a particular amount of institutional capacity or even, i think, in some case, political and train wrecky things. >> there was a gold mine for consul tants. first of all, you're probably already taking out a mort gang. you know you're going to be making so much money coming into this.
5:58 pm
the question is do you see something that looks a lot more like as we get into the sort of war lordism, right? and the failed state metaphor to extend it. something that looks like the rudementeds to a political party. >> yeah, i think the only team within this world that has all the capacity to actually, on its own, decide to affect the course of the primary is the coke operation. they have the data, they have the ground troops, they have the money. they want to get involved seriously in a primary. >> i would respectfully disagree. i think if you look at individual donors, like foster freeze, look at the a e santorum model. with one big donor, you can survive until pretty far in the process. he had enough money to win at about a dozen states, but not enough to win the nomination. >> i think it's useful because
5:59 pm
it's very hard to sort of compute matters of magnitude. so 29 billbillion, you could wr a $200 million check -- >> each month. >> so in some ways, what always struck me about what happened is e isn't how much money it is, it's actually how little. these are people that have so much money, they could just drop a billion. i mean, 10 e 1/30? >> proctor and gamble spend $6 billion a year on advertising. the entire campaign of 2012 costs that much. i agree: i'm always surprised at how skin flinty this is. even on air waves, there's a finite amount of inventory on the air waves. >> i think consul tantds are celebrating.
6:00 pm
nick is right. the air we'ves have only a finite amount of resources. and you're going to have to find out how to spend that money on the ground in an effective way. >> thank you both, gentlemen. "the rachel maddow" show starts right now. >> thanks to you at home for joining us this hour. last year, a reporter at the new york times got the results of a freedom of information act request that he had filed a long time before. it was a freedom of information act request that he filed with the f.b.i. f.b.i. ajents are sort of megacops. they work for the federal government. they investigate violations of federal law. they track down people who are suspected of breaking federal law. they investigate, they do intelligence work, they do counter intelligence work, which means they try to catch other countries spies who are operating in the united states. part of what they do is to go after public corruption. they try to bust crooked politicians.

62 Views

info Stream Only

Uploaded by TV Archive on